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Dominique Vasilkovsky Techmart Industries	Posted - 2007.03.22 10:21:00 - [1] Originally by: Umbriele My last invention experience, after 1.4 patch: 10x invention jobs of cap rec II all skills lvl4 formation layout decryptor eutetic cap rec I BPC ME140 PE10 300 runs results: 8 successfull, 2 failed, 1 was 19 runs, 1 was 11 runs, the others all 10 runs. If you used the same decryptor for all 10 jobs the number of runs look really odd to me. I would say you used a Circular Logic for the 19 run, a Classic Doctrine for the 11 run and Formation Layouts on the rest. If not then this is the very first sign of random number of runs. Can you please provide the ME / PE for the 11 and 19 run BPCs? We're sorry, something happened.
Dominique Vasilkovsky Techmart Industries	Posted - 2007.03.25 13:38:00 - [2] Originally by: Vladimir Tinakin BTW, for those interested, I'm using a ME/PE 0 BPC to run these, and the successes were me/pe -4 each. So adjust that with whatever decryptor you want to use. Do you use 10 run Covetor BPCs? And if so did you get 1 run Hulk BPCs in the successful jobs? We're sorry, something happened.
Dominique Vasilkovsky Techmart Industries	Posted - 2007.03.29 11:37:00 - [3] Originally by: Meau Problems arise where less than 4 named versions exist. Tell me about it, Cloaking Device I has meta level 0. Which combined with one of the longest copy times for a max run BPC (just under 11 days in POS) makes it a pain to invent. Just to add some more fun on top it has the same invention time as a ship, 16h in POS compared to 1h45min for a reglar module. Who knows, maybe a dev will read my bug report and put it in line with the other modules out there. We're sorry, something happened.
Dominique Vasilkovsky Techmart Industries	Posted - 2007.04.11 23:04:00 - [4] Originally by: sahtila Hmm could base success chance be something like 1/2^(amount of datacores/2). I did play around a little in Excel with base chance decided by the datacores in combination with the numbers provided be Meau below. Originally by: Meau Chance = BaseChance * Decryptor * (1 + Skill1 * 0,02) * (1 + Skill2 * 0,02) * (1 + EncryptionsSkill * 0,02) * (1 + Metalevel * 0,5) (base chance 20% and 75%, for cruisers 15%) I tried two formulas, one using the CCP favorite sqaure root of 32 (used for skill levels) and one to simply get inside the 15-75% range. Formula 1: BaseChance = SQRT(32)/10)^(DataCores(SQRT(32)/14) Formula 2: BaseChance = 1-(SQRT(32)/10)^(2.3625-DataCores0.2625) CoresFormula 1Formula 2 10.7943743240.697721348 20.6310305670.648960051 30.501274480.592332953 40.3981995760.526571201 80.1585629020.138905263 160.025142can't handle Any suggestions welcome, something must be wrong as I doubt 2.5% is the base chance for Command Ships. Screw t3. I'm waiting for t20. Just like t2, but it's free. - xArmagedunx
Dominique Vasilkovsky Techmart Industries	Posted - 2007.04.12 10:04:00 - [5] Originally by: Kaylee Zara Dominique, if the number of datacores used is involved (which I'm not convinced of yet) I'd suggest that your BaseChance must still involve some form of modifier based on the type of job ship/module/rig the job uses. That's an interesting idea, didn't think of it when I did my formulas above. Originally by: Kaylee Zara Reasoning: Not allowing for a difference between ships and modules means that Frigate invention jobs, which need 2 of each core, and Module invention jobs (also the 2 of each core variety) would have the same base chance. This seems very unlikely given we know ship invention is supposed to be harder. The question is, is it harder to invent a frig than a 2+2 core module with no meta item? The meta items seems to influence a lot. Originally by: Kaylee Zara Whether the number of datacores has an effect or not I think the base chance is based on the Data Interface that the job requires. This would give different base chances for rigs, modules and ships. This may or may not be modified by the number of datacores. It would be great if Vladimir Tinakin could test frig invention on SiSi using the same skills as during the Hulk test. Should point us in the right direction if the number of cores matter or not. I would do it myself if it wasn't for my account there had all research slots stuck "in use" without a chance to clear the jobs. Originally by: Kaylee Zara I also think those numbers are far too high at the top end for those formulas to be anywhere close. I'm only sitting at around 60% success with 2x2 datacore jobs using a meta level 0 item and +1.3 decryptor. What skill level and how many runs did you do? Feedback like this is great, the more data, the better. Screw t3. I'm waiting for t20. Just like t2, but it's free. - xArmagedunx
Dominique Vasilkovsky Techmart Industries	Posted - 2007.04.13 00:09:00 - [6] Originally by: Vladimir Tinakin I'll try to invent a series of Taranis on singularity, to contrast the Hulk. As an aside, I got lucky with my latest hulk inventions and scored a 10-run. I get to eat well tonight! Also as another aside, when pricing out the T2 components needed to build said 10 hulks (at -8ME! ), I found that it was cheaper by HALF to build them from the advanced materials. Interesting stuff. Do you still have a 1/6 success rate in total for the Hulks? I'm trying to put together a spreadsheet with success/fail data for invention so all number crunchers have an easy to access source to use. Unfortunately I will need a little bit more detail than provided soo far in this thread. Don't worry, I don't really care what you invented just what the input data and outcome was. I would be greatful if you could post the following data: Skill level (Encryption/DC1/DC2): Interface (Ship/Tuner/Data): Number of datacores from one group: Decryptor (0.4x/0.8x/1.0x/1.1x/1.3x): Item meta level (0/1/2/3/4): Attempts: Successes: Thanks Screw t3. I'm waiting for t20. Just like t2, but it's free. - xArmagedunx
Dominique Vasilkovsky Techmart Industries	Posted - 2007.04.13 10:17:00 - [7] Originally by: Nedolzna Ovcica btw, how is that, people get different number of runs... i alway got 14 run ME -7 PE -2 for modules and 5 run ME -7 PE -2 for ships... do u use max run BPCs or no? Check post 49-51 in this thread regarding the formula as input runs and decryptor affect the final runs. Screw t3. I'm waiting for t20. Just like t2, but it's free. - xArmagedunx
Dominique Vasilkovsky Techmart Industries	Posted - 2007.04.13 22:27:00 - [8] Originally by: Pizi Originally by: Aidyn Avery btw, are people getting similiar results to me with ship .4 decryptors? with 444 in skills and that decryptor im at 12 trys 0 success Is that with or without T1 ships used? What size ships? I should have 20 ship attempts completed by Sunday as well and with a bit of luck CCP might sort out my stuck jobs on SiSi next week for some more in depth testing. Screw t3. I'm waiting for t20. Just like t2, but it's free. - xArmagedunx
Dominique Vasilkovsky Techmart Industries	Posted - 2007.04.14 14:31:00 - [9] Originally by: Phasics also has anyone done testing without decryptors ? from the numbers I would be guess the best outcome would be 10run with -4ME -4PE and a 1x success chance. migth save people some iskies trying without decrptors ? That is true for modules if you use max run BPCs, however without a decryptor you will only get a 1run BPC. Screw t3. I'm waiting for t20. Just like t2, but it's free. - xArmagedunx
Dominique Vasilkovsky Techmart Industries	Posted - 2007.04.15 00:56:00 - [10] Done some invention myself today: Skill level (Encryption/DC1/DC2): 4/2/2 Interface (Ship/Tuner/Data): Ship Number of datacores from one group: 8 Decryptor (0.4x/0.8x/1.0x/1.1x/1.3x): 0.4x Item meta level (0/1/2/3/4): no ship Attempts: 18 Successes: 4 Screw t3. I'm waiting for t20. Just like t2, but it's free. - xArmagedunx
Dominique Vasilkovsky Techmart Industries	Posted - 2007.04.17 15:53:00 - [11] Originally by: Yarrr Rabble Item Meta Level: 1 (Ships...duh!!) Don't bet on the ships making a difference as they don't have a meta value in the database. Nice outcome soo far though. Screw t3. I'm waiting for t20. Just like t2, but it's free. - xArmagedunx
Dominique Vasilkovsky Techmart Industries	Posted - 2007.04.19 00:12:00 - [12] Some more data here: Skill level (Encryption/DC1/DC2): 3/2/2 Interface (Ship/Tuner/Data): Data Number of datacores from one group: 1 Decryptor (0.4x/0.8x/1.0x/1.1x/1.3x): none Item meta level (0/1/2/3/4): 4 Attempts: 30 Successes: 16 Screw t3. I'm waiting for t20. Just like t2, but it's free. - xArmagedunx
Dominique Vasilkovsky Techmart Industries	Posted - 2007.04.23 12:23:00 - [13] Updated numbers for ship invention: Skill level (Encryption/DC1/DC2):4/3/3 Interface (Ship/Tuner/Data):Ship Number of datacores from one group:8 Decryptor (0.4x/0.8x/1.0x/1.1x/1.3x):0.4x Item meta level (0/1/2/3/4):0 Attempts:66 Successes:8 Screw t3. I'm waiting for t20. Just like t2, but it's free. - xArmagedunx
Dominique Vasilkovsky Techmart Industries	Posted - 2007.04.24 10:17:00 - [14] Originally by: Aykido Dominique has 8/66 (12,12%) success rate with skill set of 4/3/3 using T1 ship as base item, inventing cruisers. Sorry for being unclear above, I didn't use any ships. Also I can agree with Agent KV that the success rate definitely dropped half way through my jobs, maybe the 0.4x decryptor was broken and got fixed without notice a week ago? My distribuiton of batch successes: 3/9 1/9 2/9 0/9 0/10 1/3 1/6 0/10 0/2 Screw t3. I'm waiting for t20. Just like t2, but it's free. - xArmagedunx
Dominique Vasilkovsky Techmart Industries	Posted - 2007.05.18 08:47:00 - [15] Updated numbers for ship invention: Skill level (Encryption/DC1/DC2):4/3/3 Interface (Ship/Tuner/Data):Ship Number of datacores from one group:8 Decryptor (0.4x/0.8x/1.0x/1.1x/1.3x):0.4x Item meta level (0/1/2/3/4):no ship Attempts:111 Successes:12 So all in all, 111 T1 runs has produced 108 T2 runs. Signature approved by Eldo
Dominique Vasilkovsky Techmart Industries	Posted - 2007.05.22 12:08:00 - [16] Originally by: ShadowRat If adding item with metalevel 1 can change your succes rate from (lets this be example only) by 1% to invention of modules like 80% of succes rate gives you 81%. This dont do much diference... but when you put this to ship invention -> from 10% you got 11% so... IT IS 10% MORE SUCCESS RATE then before... and this can be worth to do. Have nice day. Most evidence point to ships having meta level 0. My invented hulks without covetors and 1run BPCs have had a 10.8% success rate spread over 111 attempts as can be seen by my post further up. That would give a base chance of 27% with 4/3/3 skills. Signature approved by Eldo
Dominique Vasilkovsky Techmart Industries	Posted - 2007.06.05 10:50:00 - [17] I like the formula for the skill effect, sounds very plausible. I'm not entierly sure about the rest though as CCP loves doing everything using formulas and not fixed value lookup. And the only known database values are the reverese engineering and meta values. Do anyone have a link to a database website that include the reverse enineering numbers? I lost the link I had for one. Signature approved by Eldo

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